Lily Sais | Finding Peace From Within

Season Four
Written By Nicole Christie

Lily Sais, a former school psychologist and founder of Peace From Within, shares her personal experiences with anxiety, panic attacks, and obsessive-compulsive disorder, detailing how her struggles led her to discover a simpler, more compassionate way to understand her feelings. Through the lens of the three principles—mind, thought, and consciousness—she learned to recognize her innate wisdom, the transient nature of thoughts, and that anxiety did not have to define her. Lily also emphasizes that the only thing wrong with us is the belief that there is something wrong with us.

Show Notes:

  • [00:00:00] Nicole: Welcome to Here For Me, a podcast about the power of choosing yourself. I'm Nicole Christie, and I'm honored you're joining me as we talk about how life teaches us to put ourselves first. Because just as we say, I'm here for you to show we care for someone, saying I'm here for me to ourselves is the best form of self care.

    Today, I'm talking with Lily Sais. Lily is a former school psychologist and the founder of Peace From Within, where she helps people struggling with anxiety find freedom not through doing more to fix themselves, but by doing less and accepting who they are. 

    Her work is grounded in a method developed in the 1970s called the Three Principles, which are mind, thought, and consciousness. And she guides clients to understanding anxiety as part of the fundamental human experience. Not something to fix through therapy, meditation, tapping, morning routines, and all the things we're frequently fed as magic elixirs that will erase our pain. 

    Lily came to this work through her own experience with anxiety, panic, and obsessive-compulsive disorder that made it difficult for her to function, from driving to experiencing intrusive thoughts to fearing social engagements. 

    After years of trying multiple methods to heal herself, Lily realized her anxiety was largely a result of misinterpreting her feelings. The moment she stopped giving undue importance to her anxious thoughts and stopped trying to fix how she felt, everything changed. 

    This simple method doesn't require constant time, money, or energy. Instead, it's a mindset shift, a reset button that helps people reclaim their lives and understand, in the words Lily uses to describe herself, that the only thing that was wrong with me was thinking there was something wrong with me.

    Lily, welcome to Here For Me.

    [00:02:00] Lily: Thank you for having me. I love listening to that. I was like, yes, yes, yes.

    [00:02:02] Nicole: You're like, yes, this is what I do. Well, I am thrilled to have you on the show because to me, you are the future of mental health. 

    And that is coming to understand that being human is complicated. And having feelings is part of the journey and not something to fix. And I think so much of what is wrong with us is this narrative, as you have identified, that there's something wrong with us or that there is a normal, which there kind of really isn't a normal, I don't have to tell you that, and that we shouldn't experience pain and instead seek to understand accept it.

    I'm just going to rant for a second that I'm also fed up with a patriarchal society that feeds us shame, conjoined with like a capitalistic and materialistic society that tells us we can fix that shame if we buy things that help us lose weight, make our wrinkles go away, and, newsflash, cure our anxiety. 

    And I want to encourage people to think about the messaging that they're fed and where that's coming from. Is that something you're going to have to buy over and over, thinking it's going to make you feel better about yourself? Is this something you need to fix, which we're going to talk about? And who profits from your shame? That's something that I've been looking at a lot. 

    So thank you for creating a program that defies all of that, because people do pay you for your services, obviously, but what you do is teach people to find peace inside of themselves. And I think that is just all too rare. 

    [00:03:25] Lily: Thank you. That's why I have so many thoughts about money and my own insecurities coming from even, you know, making a living, anything to do with mental health. 

    And that's why I love podcasts like this and sharing on social media because I get thousands over the years of like people that just hear simple videos. Oh, just this video, just this concept. Wait, that I'm not broken. That, what if the only thing wrong with me is that I think there's something wrong with me?

    And so it's so many people that actually there is nothing to buy, just realizing that they had it wrong, that there was something wrong with them, like whether it was an intrusive thought or a panic attack or whatever, like just a simple insight. And I hear that from so many people that, oh my gosh, they never looked at it that way. And they just got curious. Is there less for me to do? Am I not broken? Am I not weird? Am I not the only one? 

    Because so many people think nobody has anxiety like me, or this is probably more than anxiety. We can really live in this feeling like something is wrong with me. And our brain's like, well, here is this evidence. And then it feels true rather than, oh my gosh, I'm just living in this feeling of my thinking that this feeling is wrong. And it's like, wait, what if that's all just thinking? And actually I am enough just as I am and there's nothing I need to do. 

    [00:04:41] Nicole: Yeah. You brought up that people think no one else suffers from it. I feel like increasingly, and I'm so glad about this, I'm so glad about the mental health awareness that is in this world right now. 

    Because people will say, this is just how my brain works. Welcome to me. Welcome to my life. Welcome to my weird brain. I hear myself saying that. 

    And you realize actually everybody's brain is weird or is different or is unique. And I feel like we're almost normalizing it. And that's what you're doing. 

    [00:05:05] Lily: Yeah. Well, thank you. Because if it's also normal, it can be so much more temporary where it's like, oh yeah, I might worry about having to pee before I get on a plane or I'm going to record a podcast or I'm going to get a massage. 

    And then it's like, oh yeah, that can be one second rather than you're living in this feeling, what's wrong with me? Why do I worry about peeing before every podcast or every massage? And you think it's some problem that you need to fix. And sometimes I get nervous before a party where I don't know people rather than thinking it means something about you. 

    Like, I guess I just have social anxiety now. It can be so much more fleeting and so much more temporary and not a big deal or not as intense. It's like, yeah, sometimes I have butterflies in my stomach before I'm going to record a podcast or before I'm going to go to a party. 

    There's so many different options and it doesn't mean like, oh, this is some character flaw or I need now more self-confidence or I need more social confidence. I think people can sometimes really take it as meaning something about their mental health or who they are as a human being. 

    [00:06:07] Nicole: There's like two sides to a label, right?

    I think some people are like, Oh, there's a label. Now I'm comforted because there's something wrong with me. But then it's almost like a trap or a framework or a box that you feel like, well, now I can't get out of it. And I have to learn to operate in this. And you're like saying, No, there's no box. 

    It's just, it's like, I had a therapist who would say riding the waves, just get on your surfboard and ride it. You'll get to shore. 

    Like you're saying, it's temporary. Yeah. Just go with it. It's okay. You're going to be nervous. It's very normal to be nervous before. I'm nervous before I go on my own podcast. So it's totally a normal response to being human in the world. Yeah. 

    So let's start with your journey because you came to this work through your own experience with anxiety. How is that manifesting for you and how did you try to resolve it? 

    [00:06:54] Lily: Well, until around age 27, it was more just, to me, It really took a turn after I had a panic attack. But before that, as a child, I worried about something bad happening to my parents. I was really influenced by movies or books. In The Witches, the parents die in a car crash. 

    [00:07:17] Nicole: Why is everyone an orphan in a fairy tale? Like, it's Bambi and whatever. 

    [00:07:19] Lily: Yeah. It was so many parents dying. And my parents are wonderful, and they live big, full lives. 

    I actually grew up here in Pasadena for the first 11 years, and then moved to Santa Monica. But they would go out to dinner. I was terrified most of the time they would get in a car because I thought they could die in a car crash.

    And it seemed so big and real to me. So being younger, a lot of the fears were just about my parents dying, something happening to them, and then me being kind of left alone. So it's kind of always preparing for the worst of like, I guess it's just going to be me. And honestly, until I was 11 or 12. In Punky Brewster, you know, which is a TV show from the 80s, but Punky's mom leaves her.

    And I thought that my parents were going to abandon me. So all the time, that's the feeling that I lived in. And so even up until we moved from Pasadena to Santa Monica, the reason we moved was so I could go to a great private school. And I can remember my mom was a few minutes late and thinking, today's the day she's going to abandon you.

    And I remember the logical part of my brain was like, well, why would they wait 11 years? And literally it said, there just wasn't a good time. That felt so true. And then that would morph into health anxiety thoughts, just being much more anxious. It felt very real to me. Like I'm really worried about real things and nobody's as worried as me.

    But when I had my daughter and was starting to feed her food, I was going to CrossFit and I'd already recovered from an eating disorder. So I was kind of skeptical of like, I don't want to fall into it, but there was this beautiful mural on the wall and it was about avoiding things and eating certain things.

    So I just, then I was like, let me research this. What is this that they're talking about? And it was a book on paleo style eating. And I'm like, this is everything I've been looking for because it seemed like a roadmap. If you avoid these foods and you eat these things, you will avoid physical and mental illness.

    And I was like, Oh my gosh. And I, okay, can sometimes, for good or bad, I can obsess. So it didn't just stop at food because it was like, well, there's stuff in the cleaning products and there's stuff in your air and cookware. And why I'm bringing that up is I think it's kind of started the stage of just really ramping up my thinking and my obsessing.

    And I think it set the stage for when I did have a panic attack. So in that phase of, orthorexia, which is an unhealthy obsession with health. But again, it seemed so real. And you have evidence. I have evidence. Yes, exactly.

    [00:09:47] Nicole: Science has backed that. I've followed paleo and still mostly do for a long time. So it's easy to do that because it also makes a ton of sense. 

    [00:09:54] Lily: Yeah. I'm not knocking anything, but I got so deep, so black and white and so fear-based. 

    It started from love, but it went so to fear. Even like trying to feed my daughter in preschool, it was like parties are like pizza and cupcakes, but I wouldn't want to overly restrict her and like bring her her own cupcakes all the time because then she could be anorexic and die from that. 

    And then I read a book about being zero waste. I'm like, this is great. All of my waste should fit in a ball jar. I'm going to be zero waste. And nobody should use plastic.

    So all of that was kind of setting the stage to, I had a panic attack driving on the freeway, the 10 freeway. At this time, it was my second year as a school psychologist. And I had a panic attack, and I thought I was losing my mind. Like, that's kind of what it felt like. Mine involved kind of this weird, unreal feeling, like super speeded up. 

    And so after that, I ramped up my mental health care even more, because I'd already been into mental health. But I was like, well, now I couldn't. It's like what you do. And also all of it's so interesting to me, like all that paleo stuff. Yes, it was there, but like, I'm so into it. Biohacking, rewiring my brain. 

    So I don't know if it was before then, but then it was like neurofeedback, somatic therapy. Also, I love everything about like the natural healing too, like crystals and Reiki and tapping. Girl, we are into the same stuff. And yoga therapy. 

    You know, and even eating cleaner, grounding, meditation. I got certified to teach meditation in schools. I went to a three-day long Vedic meditation training. Like all of this lights me up, you know, and is exciting, but I was doing it thinking, I'm really broken. And like, this is really bad. And a panic attack to me felt horrible, but it also felt like this was the verge of me losing my mind. 

    So I got to try really hard. I was just so hungry for information of like, okay, my miracle morning and I'm going to have my mantras and maybe it needs to involve some sort of religion and chanting and essential oils and rewiring my brain like Joe Dispenza and eating 30 grams of protein in the morning. 

    [00:11:59] Nicole: All the things that you see everywhere that are recommended and you're like, I'm just going to do all of it. And then that becomes an obsession of its own. 

    [00:12:07] Lily: Exactly. So I just thought about myself and my mental health a lot and my life got pretty small. And then I did cognitive behavioral therapy because at one point I didn't drive on the freeway for a year, which is a lot in LA.

    And I rode my bike from Santa Monica to Hollywood a couple of days a week, which was also like really fun. 

    [00:12:25] Nicole: Yeah, yeah. It's fun and it's good for you. It's good exercise, good fresh air, but you're avoiding something. 

    [00:12:27] Lily: I was. So, you know, some things would help, like I'd get back to driving on the freeway with the help of cognitive behavioral therapy, but it was still so much hard work. 

    You know, then I was, like, always thinking and working and I would sing, you know, I did these, like, techniques and they helped, but I was, like, terrified and I was still working so hard. And that was when I went back to the internet and typed in, I don't know, anxiety panic help. 

    And up pop, now who's a good friend and a colleague, Sarie Taylor. And she had like a five or seven day anxiety kind of panic program. And she just sent you a simple video that was 30 minutes long. And it was introducing three principles. I don't know if she even said that word, but I started to see that maybe I didn't need to do as much. 

    And I got curious about that because I was tired. You know, it's like maybe I didn't need to do so much and maybe everything that I was doing, but I saw it without judgment. Like maybe everything that I was doing was kind of contributing to why I kept having panic attacks on the freeway, despite all my hard work. 

    And the overarching message was I wasn't broken and there was less for me to do. And I never really heard that in that way. And also with Sarie, her anxiety was just as bad as mine. And I think until then I'd worked with wonderful people, but I had this belief, they just, they don't get it. Like they don't know it because I'm kind of insane and I'm really ill. So with Sarie, she was saying exactly what I needed to hear. 

    [00:14:07] Nicole: Talk more about the three principles and what they are all about. I'm curious how they were effective in helping you find relief and then how you bring that into your work now. 

    [00:14:20] Lily: Well, one of my first insights listening to Sarie was that my wisdom, which that can kind of be in the principle of mind, which is just this innate intelligence that we all have. That's just here in the world, that grows an acorn into an oak tree, that whale song or people growing babies and how our bones heal and how, you know, that there's just like to me, like a zebra, like we can see this innate intelligence or salmon swim upstream and birds migrate.

    And then like a little dandelion comes out of the concrete. So there's this innate intelligence, that's in us, this intelligence behind our brain. So I, I'm a very hardworking person and very thoughtful and can be perfectionistic. So that's kind of the approach that I had to like my mental health. So it's made sense to think a lot and to take this seriously because it is a panic attack driving and mental health.

    And when I realized that my wisdom got me through every panic attack, that was beyond my thinking. And I realized, I got through that first panic attack. I had no idea it was coming. I found a place to park. I called my mom. I called my psychiatrist. I was like, because after that for seven years, I obsessively thought about a panic attack and tried to prepare for it.

    And I realized I got through everything. And I felt such shame about all my panic attacks because almost all of them were when I was driving and I wouldn't be able to stop except for one time I was able to drive after a panic attack, but I wouldn't drive. I'd have to have my husband come pick me up.

    And my parents bring me back. I was 30. and a school psychologist. So when I realized that my wisdom got me through, that was a really early insight. And then another principle is just about thought. And so the three principles are just facts. These are true. And sometimes when people realize how true they are, that sets them free.

    So like, wait, we all have this innate intelligence that's beyond our thinking. So it's safe not to think so much. And what happens with that is when you don't think so much, your head quiets down. And when our head quiets down, we just have clearer thinking. We just start to feel better.

    [00:16:30] Nicole: And your gut takes over, right? Your intuition knows so much and you're like tamping it down by almost not trusting it and letting your head spin. 

    [00:16:38] Lily: Yeah. And so when our head is spinning, we can feel like we're losing our mind. We can feel really kind of crazy. Or you can physically feel like you're having a heart attack or you have shortness of breath, or you know, nauseous.

    So there's all of these ripple effects of having a really noisy brain. And then there's the other way of when we realize that it's safe not to think so much and our mind quiets down. We have clarity. So it just is mentally and physically the different effects of leaving your thinking alone. 

    And then the second one was about thought. And it was two part for me when I realized that just because I had a thought didn't mean it was true. So we have this innate intelligence and then we also have a brain. that's always chatting and sharing its opinion. And for me, that would look like scanning and be like, your arms are tingly and maybe you're going to have a panic attack. And I kind of thought that that was like the word of God in a way. 

    It was like, oh, okay, it's starting. And I thought my thinking was so true. And so when I started to be like, maybe it's just this mental chatter, I didn't have to take it so seriously. And then the second part about the nature of thought is that it's transient. It flows all on its own. 

    And again, there was less for me to do \because I would do all my tapping, you know, like I loved tapping. I read all the research about it and I think it's cool. Like I'm not knocking it. It did help me actually in like an eating disorder recovery time. So I'm not knocking anything. I'm just saying for me when I overcomplicated it very innocently

    So if I thought, okay, here's this anxiety and panic coming, it's hard to do a lot when you're driving on the freeway. I'd be like, well, what are my cognitive distortions? And is this 

    [00:18:18] Nicole: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what I'm thinking about all of this while I'm overthinking.

    [00:18:21] Lily: Exactly. And so when I saw, maybe I didn't have to take my thoughts so seriously. And maybe they flow all on their own. So I started to feel a little anxious and have my brain be like, maybe you're going to panic and maybe you're going crazy. I guess it just turned down the volume. And I genuinely was curious.

    And then it would change. I didn't take the bait. And I would have a new thought. I'd be like, I wonder if I need gas or something. 

    So just those two thoughts alone. In my beginning, consciousness, I had no idea what that was. Because I also used to have a story that I'm dumb. I still slightly have that. And so consciousness seemed like a big weird word. And I thought, I didn't even need to know what that was until I started coaching. 

    But just those two things that I'm made of, wisdom and common sense. It's safe not to think so much. It's safe not to take my thinking seriously, because I'm not broken. And my thinking flows all on its own. I just had so much more lightness. 

    So with Sarie, she went to a mental hospital because she was feeling really anxious. And that was my worst fear. I think a lot of it was how mental health was kind of portrayed in maybe the 90s, like straight jackets. And I thought, rhe panic attack was bad, but my next step was a mental hospital. And I was under this misunderstanding. I couldn't be a school psychologist. Like, I couldn't still have my kids. It made sense that I was so terrified to hold on. 

    And when I saw Sarie, and then also this other woman, Nicola Bird, they were both psychotherapists and moms. They both went to a mental hospital to get help for their anxiety, and they came out, and they were great. So instantly that fear was gone. I was like, oh, that's not the end. Who cares? So that just instantly popped that bubble. 

    So those kind of three things that it was like, well, who cares? Because those women are amazing. I look up to them. If I was them, awesome. That was enough to change my life. 

    And because I had struggled after the panic attack with driving anxiety and panic and like severe anxiety for seven years, when I realized how simple it was, I was like, why don't all the adults know this? Like, why didn't anybody tell me? 

    Because also I would hold my breath when I'd get anxious. And then so many people recommend breathing techniques, which I'm not knocking, but I got a hyper fixation on. And so I would literally manually breathe from the moment I woke up and it would linger for three weeks. 

    And then I would go to breathwork classes, which are very cool, but I'd go and I couldn't breathe effortlessly. It sounds very silly, but everyone talked about like belly breathing and four, seven, eight breathing and alternate nostril. 

    But I became hyper-focused, so like an OCD obsession with my own breathing. It was almost like I just really got in a habit. From the moment I wake up, I wouldn't realize it, because the habit is kind of behind the scenes. 

    And I would check on my breathing. But I would do this thing where I'd make myself swing a kettlebell 40 times just to change my breathing. And I would have a reprieve for two minutes. But then I'd be like, is it there? And I would be obsessed with my breathing to the point that I felt like I had to manually breathe. And it would be this habit for three weeks and I would get lightheaded and my chest would ache because I was like in this weird breathing. 

    But then everyone kept being like, why don't you do breathing? And you're like, I got to tell you why that's not going to work because I'm trying that and it's not working. 

    So, so many things that I tried, I think people share them because that really helped them. But who me, as a person who can be a lovely, weird, obsessive, wonderful human being. When I came into this, I was like, I just wanted to shout it from the rooftops. And I did start kind of sharing it as a school psychologist. There's a great evidence-based curriculum. But I really was like, I want the adults to know. 

    [00:22:11] Nicole: It's so funny as you're talking about this. So I am OCD and OCPD, both. But one of the things for me is the same. I have to be careful about what routines I get into because I lock into them and then I can't, I can't, survive without them, and they're actually creating more issues.

    And so I have to do less. I did things like unsubscribe from magazines, unfollow people online, because I am obsessed with checking boxes and doing all the things. So for me, that's a big part of my anxiety. I will stay under-informed on the news. 

    I don't have live television anymore. People are like, Oh my gosh, you're not informed. Do you even know what's happening in this country? Yes, I do. I still, you know, I'm plugged in enough, but I love what you're talking about because I think that a lot of people can get into that and then you're attached to the ritual and not the result. Of what it can bring you.

    [00:23:02] Lily: I love that you said that because I take care of myself in that way too, in terms of news, politics stuff.

    And now I know how to get out of it. And I also love myself. I used to really think something was wrong with me. And I think so much of my life has changed. I don't really experience much anxiety at all. Sometimes I feel like I have anxiety, amnesia. I don't have panic attacks. I don't consider myself to have OCD, but I'm still me, but I used to think there's something wrong.

    I should be like my parents who can very happily watch the news and have it on all the time, or my ex husband who doesn't worry about the kids. I used to think. There was a way I should be, I should feel, and it's funny because when I stopped thinking about myself as much and just seeing how cool human beings are, I'm more of a feeling of love for everybody, which includes me.

    And so a couple of months ago I was more watching videos about what's going on in the world in Israel and in Palestine and not to get. political, but like I had that in my mind and my mind sometimes will replay things over and over and over. And, um, my son was turning 10. This was like May 29th. And we took his friends to a Dodgers game.

    And I thought, how are we so privileged? I felt horrible. And it felt like, how are we at the Dodgers game when these kids, when bad things is happening? It was less of a problem than it would have felt like seven years ago. So I was having this experience And I held it together and it was fine. And then I got home, the next day and I just could not stop crying.

    And I realized that I'd kind of trapped myself because I thought my brain would have this idea because we have new thoughts, like make yourself a lovely iced coffee. And I'd be like, you're so privileged. Like you, if you have an iced coffee and you feel better, you're denying the suffering of everybody.

    And I wasn't thinking there was anything wrong with me, but I think when it clicked was I can be in a feeling of love and a good feeling. And that didn't mean that my heart still wasn't breaking and I still didn't, as cheesy as it sounds, want world peace. And rather than thinking I'm broken, I'm excited because there's always more insights for me to have.

    I continually keep learning. And I think when I've seen it, sometimes the lesson's like, me being in a feeling of love for humanity. Like, I don't need to suffer even though my heart can go out to somebody. So, I'm not like, you need to do more work and you're highly sensitive. But I think before I couldn't even discuss it because I had so much shame.

    [00:25:32] Nicole: It's funny that you brought it up because as you were talking about that, I was going to ask you if you identified as a highly sensitive person, because I do as well and as an empath. And I think when you work with that, realizing like you're saying, it's just differences. There are things that people like us cannot do that other people can, but there's also things that we can do that other people can't, that are superpowers of the highly sensitive, of just being able to process deeply and connect the dots and find patterns.

    I mean, people will be like, how did you put that together? And I think this is the depth of processing that's a gift, but it doesn't make them like with your mom. It doesn't make you worse. Because you can watch the news, you're not heartless, you just aren't affected by it as deeply. And it's seeing that just everybody's on their own journey, and we all bring unique gifts to the table, and nothing's right or wrong. But I think society typically hasn't been super accepting of highly sensitive people, or empathic people, of like, why are you crying about this again?

    I got that. Why are you worrying about that? My ex-husband used to be like, just relax. There's like a meme on Instagram about, you know, with some guy with the Titanic theme, like sailing off into the sunset. It's like my husband going to get a Nobel prize for curing my anxiety by telling me to just relax.

    And I was like, I so relate to that. Because he did not understand how I, you know, how I felt,  operated. And I would try to have compassion for him of, like you can do different things than I can. So I'm glad you brought that up because it's just learning to know yourself and accept who you are and what you can and can't do in the world.

    [00:27:00] Lily: And you know what? I think also I used to think something was wrong with me, but also then think something like was wrong with my ex-husband. You know, I'd kind of like, it would be this twofold of judgment. Judgment of me and judgment of others. And I'm just in less judgment. I think I I just have so much love and understanding.

    My thinking is less black and white. It's not like there is this right way to be. Also, I do notice that when my mind's quieter, I'm not as sensitive, say, to bright lights or noises. And I used to think that was more fixed where, sure, I might have a preference for like different lighting or like not going to a restaurant that, you know, some of the acoustics where people are talking and then there's music on.

    Most of the time, I'm actually totally fine with it. And I just notice if there's just more noise in my head, I am more sensitive to noises or sounds or smells than other people, but my tolerance is higher than it used to be. And I think a lot of it also is like some of this, and some of this I do think comes with age.

    Like I love aging. I love being in my 40s. There's a letting go that is just, yeah, it's epic. Yeah. Now I'm like, this is me. But that also would help settle the nervous system, the judgment of myself or others or there's something wrong with me. You know, what I know is our brain doesn't speak English, so that judgment that like, if everybody just did it right, or if I did it right, then sends this message very innocently that like, there's danger.

    And when I'm in less judgment, I'm in less judgment of me. I'm not broken.

    There's nothing to fix. It's safe to relax. So I'm much more in a relaxed state, more of the time, or that's my normal.

    [00:28:50] Nicole: We've talked on this podcast before about awakenings and I relate to it as well from the last couple of years, but the switch that flipped for me was I noticed all of a sudden, instead of looking at everyone and judging where they were and be like, don't you understand how to do this or myself too?

    Why am I doing it? All of a sudden I was like, Oh, you're just on your journey. It's not for me to fix. I just hold space. If you want to talk about it or whatever, that lightness, it was life changing to feel that, to stop judging and see people in a more compassionate light. 

    Talk about your program, Peace From Within. There are a couple of different ways to work with you. One is one on one coaching as well as the Peace From Within community. 

    So when people come to you, how do they know which of those options is best for them? Because I'm sure they come to you having tried all the things that you've tried, right? I've been meditating, I'm doing breathwork, and I think something's wrong with me.

    So how do you take them through this and what does that success look like? 

    [00:29:48] Lily: Well, often people will just join the community, but some people will want to work one on one and usually I'll just have a consultation with them just to chat. And I think both are great. And sometimes it depends on, I guess a financial thing.

    You know, if someone's like, I just want a few sessions, I might join the community. So oftentimes, even if people work one on one, I give them just free access to the community because there is such a huge video library, which no video is longer than 30 minutes there. Very accessible. It also just kind of keeps it broad about just sharing how we work as human beings.

    And then if they want, they can go and watch the health anxiety sections, uh, the ones on intrusive thoughts. And I've had so many guests from trauma and incidents. Insomnia and different psychiatrists, or this one's on physical symptoms, and the first one might be, there's nothing wrong with you. You have wisdom waiting to break free and noticing without judgment sets you free.

    But if I'm working one on one, we'll do a consultation and then we'll just have a conversation and see where people are at. And so with that, when it's more personalized, I might recommend a different starting point based on where we're talking. And sometimes all we need also is just to talk and we'll talk and something might spark and I might say, Oh, read this chapter or listen to this podcast, or here's this video of me.

    And then we'll talk again in a couple of weeks. The same also, like actually people get so much support. It's really what they make of it in the Peace from Within community, the membership, because there are some people that show up every week. I do live coaching once to twice a week, every Tuesday. It's at the same time.

    Everybody can come on and I stay as long as I can, which is sometimes like three and a half hours. So it's usually two hours, but it's interesting because even though there's a lot of people, the calls are still relatively small for me. I was talking to a colleague, I'm like, there's still just 17 people.

    And he's like, that's big. And to me, I'm like, I've been running groups for 17 years. And so I love groups. And there's, oftentimes the same people will show up and they'll say, so I got the job, um, or I'm pregnant now and I'm going on the vacation or they'll update us. And everybody gets to support each other, which is really cool.

    You feel less alone. That's then the coolest part because I started the community one because I really wanted a place where all my stuff could be, but that it was in a financial way that felt good to me. Also, because there's nothing wrong. I want everyone to be rich and make a great living. But for me, I didn't feel comfortable with like a $6,000 coaching package, which there's nothing wrong with it. I might do that one day, but I always want something that people can be like, this isn't a financial stressor. 

    There are so many people, because I have forums where you can ask questions and share your wins and also people can opt out of the ask questions section, but I check it every day and sometimes twice a day to write back and people already beat me to it. And I was cautious because I'm like, wait, I don't want people to say, hey, have you tried breathwork? And nobody does. Everybody is there really kind of keeping to just this simple understanding. 

    And people have made friendships. There's a group of women who live in like three different countries who are like best friends and they met in the community. One's in the United States, one's in England, but they'll send me videos of the four of them celebrating each other's birthdays and then watch movies. So friendships like that, but also just other people connecting off of the community or really providing such amazing insights and just people also knowing they're not alone. 

    I have another person who is in my community. She's going to lead the call on postpartum anxiety and another person who's going to lead the call on intrusive thoughts. 

    [00:33:19] Nicole: I think the idea of a community, I mean, as you're talking about it, I just think about people feeling there is something wrong with them.

    The community in and of itself innately addresses that, that there's not anything wrong with you because there's other people. So it's normal to feel this way. I hear about ADHD all the time. And I'm like, I think everyone is ADHD. I think Sharon Salzberg, the meditation teacher said, you don't have ADHD. The world has ADHD and we're responding to it. And I was like, yes, preach sister. 

    So just having this community so people can support each other and come together and find other people is really beautiful. 

    You and I were talking about. success because I think one of the things I love about peace from within is that we were saying like meditation feels like another thing to do and therapy seems like it never ends.

    And we were talking before we recorded that, um, my physical therapist said, if I do my job right, I never see you again. You might come back from another issue. You might have hurt your hip. But I fixed your shoulder, but you just teach people to be free. And I love that so much.

    So what does success look like when people, whether they're in the community or they're working one on one with you or both, what does that look like for people who participate in the program?

    [00:34:32] Lily: It is freedom. It is ease. And oftentimes when I've asked people like, Oh, what would success be? It's interesting. A lot of the time they say, okay, I want to go to dinner. I want to drive. I want to experience a little anxiety. And it's not a big deal. And I was surprised when I heard that multiple times, some people do say, I want no anxiety, but oftentimes they say, I want anxiety to show up and it's not a big deal.

    So I do have clients who I've talked to for my whole career. I probably have 10, but they don't experience anxiety or panic, but every few months I'll talk to them because their life is happening. But they're kind of like a tune up. Most people, if they show up to the community or work from round one, they don't consider themselves really to have disordered anxiety. They don't experience panic. 

    And there are some people who I never talk to again because it's just not front page news. They do not have panic attacks anymore. They don't consider themselves to have OCD and they might get anxious sometimes, but it's just, it's not a big deal. And there are some people that it's like just a month in the community or two months and they're like, I don't need it anymore.

    I get probably messages like that every day, like, Hey, they'll cancel it. Or they'll say, can you cancel it for me? I haven't been on here for months. My life has changed. 

    I just had a woman who just has been in here less than a month and she was on the call and she, it was such a great story because she said, I drove to a new town that I haven't been to since 2018.

    What my approach is also, you're not forcing yourself to do exposures and also, I'm not knocking that. Or for a lot of people, then they put more pressure. And so this woman said, in all my years of therapy, I've been trying so hard and I've been in here for like a few weeks, and she really wanted this type of dairy free cheese. She's like, I usually get it delivered or I'll go to my local Whole Foods. It wasn't there. It was in a couple of towns over. She was like, but, I really wanted the cheese. And she said, and nothing happened. And then she realized, well, I could do this all the time because nothing happened. And now she's getting a surgery.

    So she's realizing, wait, maybe this same ease even applies in a hospital with surgery. So sometimes people, they start to realize these insights about their work or their family relationships. And that's oftentimes where people will just stay because they're like, Oh my gosh, I came in here for driving or I wanted to be comfortable staying alone. I'm just feeling so much better. 

    They just realize all of these insights in so many different areas. So this applies also to just, like, self confidence and my ease with my career. And even health. So some people get what they're looking for and they're like, I'm good. Some people leave and then they want to come back.

    I think because the price is lower, they feel like they can stay and they wanted to just stay in the conversation and they like seeing people's wins. 

    But success is that. 

    What people realize is they had it within them all along. It empowers them. Just sometimes theirmy head gets noisy and they notice if they're feeling anxious or in a low mood. Oh, I'm just going to leave my thinking alone. Of course it's going to be weird and distorted and tell me I'm broken and not enough. Leave it alone. And then their state of mind rises, their head clears. And it's like, I have everything I'm looking for. 

    So that success of people just realizing there's nothing wrong with them. There's less for them to do. And it brings them back home, back inside. And some people love to just come back and share it and share like, yeah, the progress

    [00:38:06] Nicole: And that's helpful for other people. What I love about it is it's, first of all, everybody can do it because it's inside of everyone. And it's really changing a mindset and, and believing in yourself, which applies everywhere.

    Like you said, it's not just to driving or I'm going to have a panic attack, or I feel anxious when I'm about to speak in front of a group, or it's that feeling. And people are surprised by it, but you just flipped that switch inside of you. 

    So with everything that you have been through, which is a lot starting at childhood and thinking your parents were going to die and you would be alone, and everything that you've shared today here for me is a podcast about the power of choosing yourself.

    So what would you say is the most important thing you have done to choose yourself? 

    [00:38:51] Lily: I guess I've just never given up. Perseverance. 

    Yeah, perseverance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just staying in it. You know, it's like, Oh, a new day and a new day can also start at 2 p.m.

    [00:39:03] Nicole: And the flexibility and the grace of that.

    [00:39:06] Lily:Yeah. I guess not being hard on myself. And I unconditionally love myself by choosing me and forgiveness, too. One of my mentors said that he called himself a lovable mess. And I love that. And that really, I think that I'm a lovable mess. And I choose me because I also love lovable messes. 

    [00:39:22] Nicole: Yeah. And literally everyone is one.

    We’re works in progress all the time. I wish more people could get on board with that because like we were saying, everyone thinks they're isolated and feeling scared or anxious or what, however they want to identify their feelings. And it's like, we're all that. Thinking that you're unique is isolating you from other people.

    [00:39:45] Lily: That's kind of another anchoring thing that has spoken to people like, what if the only thing wrong with you is that you think there's something wrong with you? It freed me from this illusion that there was something wrong with me with exactly how I was. And so I guess that's how I choose me. It’s like, I'm perfect exactly as I am.

    [00:40:02] Nicole: Thank you so much for being here and for the work you are doing. You're setting people free and you're helping them be here for themselves. By accepting themselves, and I love that. 

    [00:40:13] Lily: Thank you so much for having me.

    [00:40:22] Nicole: As I said at the beginning of this episode, Lily Sais is the future of mental health rather than pathologizing and labeling. She helps us understand the only thing that's wrong with us is thinking there's something wrong with us.

    That in fact, having a noisy brain and feeling anxious and scared is all part of being human. It's no different than being exhausted or frustrated. Somehow we accept those feelings as part of life, but rush to fix our anxiety because society has led us to believe we should be calm and confident at all times. 

    And when we're not? We feel like we're failing when we feel lured to something outside ourselves that promises to solve what ails us.

    It's worth asking who profits from my shame. What's revolutionary about Lily's work is that she helps us see we have everything we need inside ourselves. That anxiety is simply something to ride out, not fix or fear. 

    I once had a therapist who used surfing as a metaphor. She said, it's much more anxiety-inducing to duck and dive the waves of emotion. You get scattered and frantic and more likely to end up in a riptide. Instead, get on your surfboard and ride them to shore. You're safe on the board. You move more quickly through the waves and soon you're on dry land. 

    Lily teaches us that it's also about doing less, learning to be okay with who we are and where we're at, rather than tackling a to-do list of things that promise to alleviate anxiety.

    When you think about it, how does doing more create a sense of calm? How does buying more, scrolling more, subscribing more, make things better? Isn't it all just a distraction? A shame cycle that keeps you spinning? When what you really need to do is stop and learn to love yourself? 

    As our society comes online to the topic of mental health, we also don't help ourselves with the refrain that we're weird and different, that our brains are wired unlike anyone else's, in a way that makes us less than, that everyone else is normal, and we're dysfunctional.

    I think this is a side effect of the cultural discourse, which is a good thing to be having. But it's also leading us to believe there's something wrong with us and isolating us rather than uniting us in a shared understanding that everyone struggles and that we're more alike than different. But maybe this is part of the journey we're on as a society finally addressing mental health.

    Maybe it starts with labels and categories and much like any social movement. The pendulum swings hard in one direction and then wildly in the other before settling somewhere in the middle, gently rocking its way to equilibrium. Maybe it started with completely ignoring mental health, to pathologizing it, to shaming it, and now we can see it's just part of being human.

    That there's no difference between physical and mental health. That high blood pressure and bipolar disorder are just things we have to manage. That anxiety is as normal as joy, that every one of us is having a human experience and we're not remotely alone. 

    It's hard to see that when we're isolated by social media and remote working and a culture that profits from us feeling ashamed of how we look and feel. That tells us we need to know more about everyone, everything everywhere. That keeps us running and buying, so we don't slow down and stop to see that maybe the problem isn't us, but our attempts to acclimate to a sick society. We're not without agency in healing society, but there's only so much we can do.

    We do, however, have agency over ourselves, our choices, our behaviors, our responses to what goes on around us and, most important, inside us. That's Lily's mission in the world, to help all of us find peace from within. And if peace outside of us starts within each of us, that's a mission worth taking on not just for ourselves, but for everyone, everything, everywhere.

    This episode of Here For Me was produced by Tulla Productions in association with You & Me Media. My deepest gratitude goes out to our producer, Courtney Acuna, our editor, J.D. Delgado, our production assistant, Sarah Carefoot, and designer and illustrator, Amy Senftleben.

    If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you'd follow the show, rate, review, and share it with people you love. You can also follow me on Instagram and YouTube at nicolejchristie and find show notes and transcripts for all episodes at hereformepodcast.com.

    Until next time, thank you so much for listening. Here's to you being here for you…and to the power of choosing yourself.

Nicole Christie
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